3/8/2010 7:24:21 AM
jannie
Posts: 4
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In Gal. 2:7 we read : But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as of the circumcision unto Peter.
A lot of people read here two gospels : the gospel of the uncircumcision and the gospel of the circumcision. They think this are two different gospels.
But that is not what this verse says. I think this verse tells that Paul en Peter went to different groups. There was not a different gospel because Paul says in chapter one vs. 6 and 7 : I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another, ….. vs 8 says : but though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
I believe that there is only one gospel (death and resurrection). This is the basic for everything. It was the message from Paul and Peter to different groups and not a different gospel.
What do you think?
Jannie
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3/8/2010 3:32:32 PM
chipper
Posts: 17
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jannie wrote:
In Gal. 2:7 we read : But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as of the circumcision unto Peter. A lot of people read here two gospels : the gospel of the uncircumcision and the gospel of the circumcision. They think this are two different gospels. But that is not what this verse says. I think this verse tells that Paul en Peter went to different groups. There was not a different gospel because Paul says in chapter one vs. 6 and 7 : I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another, ….. vs 8 says : but though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. I believe that there is only one gospel (death and resurrection). This is the basic for everything. It was the message from Paul and Peter to different groups and not a different gospel. What do you think? Hi Jannie, It is true that the death and resurrection is the basis for both gospels, but much is different. Peter's kingdom gospel-gospel of the circumcision entails God blessing Israel under the new covanant-and the gentiles through Israel in the prophesied earthly kingdom). Paul's gospel of the grace of God-(gospel of the uncircumcision-no Jew or gentile, one new man/the church the body of Christ by grace through faith-Heavenly blessings), was unprophesied and kept hidden until revealed to Paul (Rom. 16:25). It is important read this passage (and others) in the context of the big picture. Keep in mind that in the big picture, some very significant events have taken place before Gal. 2:7 was penned. We know that all of mankind, (Jews and gentiles Rom.3:9), had reached a place where prophetic judgment was about to fall. (Acts 7:55,56). The gentiles had rejected God's revelation of himself to them, (Rom 1) and the Jews had murdered their Messiah and rejected the offer of the Messianic Kingdom and the ministry of the Holy Spirit via Peter and the little flock by this time. The whole world was 'guilty' before God. But instead of the prophesied judgment falling, Christ revealed himself to arch enemy Paul with a message of grace to all of condemned mankind regardless of pedigree! Paul is not preaching a gospel already preached and rejected by his kinsmen as Peter was, for Rom. 9-11 makes it clear that offer is not currently on the table, but will be again at a future time. Also, remember that Paul went up by revelation to communicate "that gospel'' which he preached among the gentiles to the apostles in Jerusalem.(Gal. 2:2) They did not have the revelations that Christ was giving to Paul and he makes it clear he didn't receive his gospel from them. Further, when we read 2Peter3:15, (And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ), we can see that Peter was stabilizing those Jewish saints who were wavering because of the unexpected delay in the prophetic gospel of the circumcision. He points them to Paul's teachings for the answers. While there are many commonalities in the two gospels, they are differentiated in the scriptures for a reason! What a blessing to live in this 'grace period' offered to by God to us all through Paul's ministry! hth chipper  Jannie |
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3/10/2010 1:51:55 PM
DougArndt
Posts: 2
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chipper wrote:
jannie wrote:
I believe that there is only one gospel (death and resurrection). This is the basic for everything. It was the message from Paul and Peter to different groups and not a different gospel.
Jannie
It is true that the death and resurrection is the basis for both gospels, ...
chipper
Are there some verses to demonstrate that "resurrection" IS included in the basis for the Kingdom Gospel ?
John 20:30-31 says that believing "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" was the basis of belief in the Kingdom Gospel, no mention of death or resurrection (compare to I Cor 15:1-4)
We know from Matt 16:21-22 that after preaching the gospel for several years, Peter rebukes Jesus for telling them of His pending death and resurrection, that surely couldn't be part of their gospel, otherwise he would have known.
Even after the resurrection, Thomas still refused to believe until he had seen Jesus. (John 20:24-28)
In Acts 2, Peter accuses the Jewish people of killing their Messiah, not something to be believed in.
Last fall I found a wonderful, and easy to read, book called "The Two Gospels" by R. Dawson Barlow.
The whole book deals with the subject of ... two gospels.
If interested, see the section "book store" at http://www.bibleambassadors.org/
edited by DougArndt on 3/10/2010
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Doug
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3/10/2010 4:51:57 PM
chipper
Posts: 17
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DougArndt wrote:
chipper wrote: jannie wrote:
I believe that there is only one gospel (death and resurrection). This is the basic for everything. It was the message from Paul and Peter to different groups and not a different gospel.
Jannie
It is true that the death and resurrection is the basis for both gospels, ...
chipper Are there some verses to demonstrate that "resurrection" IS included in the basis for the Kingdom Gospel ? John 20:30-31 says that believing "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" was the basis of belief in the Kingdom Gospel, no mention of death or resurrection (compare to I Cor 15:1-4) We know from Matt 16:21-22 that after preaching the gospel for several years, Peter rebukes Jesus for telling them of His pending death and resurrection, that surely couldn't be part of their gospel, otherwise he would have known. Even after the resurrection, Thomas still refused to believe until he had seen Jesus. (John 20:24-28) In Acts 2, Peter accuses the Jewish people of killing their Messiah, not something to be believed in. Last fall I found a wonderful, and easy to read, book called "The Two Gospels" by R. Dawson Barlow. The whole book deals with the subject of ... two gospels. If interested, see the section "book store" at http://www.bibleambassadors.org/edited by DougArndt on 3/10/2010
Perhaps I am not reading the question accurately. I read it as the ''basis or undergirding of both gospels is the death and resurrection"(that being the atonement for sin-Christ's death for 'many' and 'all'), and there is therefore only one gospel.
During Christ's earthly ministry, the gospel being preached is, as you sited, that Christ is the son of God and Messiah. Those who believed this followed the instructions of John the baptist, repented and were baptized, etc. in preparation for the coming kingdom.
True, even the followers of Christ were ignorant of his coming death and resurrection, although both were well prophesied. The entire idea of the coming kingdom presupposed a bodily resurrection into the earthly kingdom. As Christ says afterwards to them in Luke 24:25 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."
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3/16/2010 7:01:39 PM
No Leaks 2
Posts: 16
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jannie said: "In Gal. 2:7 we read : But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as of the circumcision unto Peter.
A lot of people read here two gospels : the gospel of the uncircumcision and the gospel of the circumcision. They think this are two different gospels.
But that is not what this verse says. I think this verse tells that Paul en Peter went to different groups. There was not a different gospel because Paul says in chapter one vs. 6 and 7 : I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another, ….. vs 8 says : but though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
I believe that there is only one gospel (death and resurrection). This is the basic for everything. It was the message from Paul and Peter to different groups and not a different gospel."
Jannie, I beg to differ with you. Paul means exactly what he says in Gal. 2:7. There ARE two separate and distinct gospels. The "gospel of the circumcision" is the Gospel of the Kingdom, which was preached by John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus, and the 12 apostles. This is Jesus Christ preached according to prophecy, and is TO THE JEWS of Israel. This is NOT the gospel that Paul preaches. In fact, Paul never BELIEVED this gospel, and persecuted those that DID believe this gospel. Paul was once Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee, and believed in the Torah.
Look at what else Paul says about his gospel: Gal. 1
11 "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it"
Now see Galatians 2:
1 "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain."
Now, if Paul preached the same gospel as Peter, why would God have revealed to him that he needed to go up to Jerusalem, and tell Peter and the twelve the gospel that he preaches among the Gentiles?
The answer is simply this: Paul does NOT preach the same gospel. Paul does not preach Jesus Christ according to prophecy.
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" Romans 16:25,26
Jannie, Paul preaches Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began! NOT the same gospel! He expounds even more on it in Ephesians 3:
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Paul's message is unique! It was given to him BY our risen Lord Jesus Christ!
On the other hand, Peter never knew the "good news" of the cross! He only knew that Israel had killed their Messiah! Acts 2:
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (and further on)
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
You see? Peter only knew that by wicked hands did Israel slay their Messiah! He did NOT know what was to be revealed to Paul!
Two different gospels are exactly what Paul meant, jannie.
--
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:24
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3/17/2010 5:34:42 AM
jannie
Posts: 4
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Thanks all for you help. I appreciate it so much!
If you don't mind I have some other questions.
In Gal. 2:2 we read that Paul is in Jeruzalem and that he is sharing there the gospel that he is preaching among the gentiles.
So on that moment they knew the gospel.
What was the expectation from the apostles? ...that the Kingdom would start?
What was te expectation from Paul .... ?
Where the jews saved by grace the way we are or did they have to keep the law. I simply don't understand that those jews in Jeruzalem where zealous of the law. The way it is written sounds positive but when I read Galatians I see it as negative.
How long there was still difference between jew and gentile. Or perhaps i have to ask : when was the Olive tree cut of?
In His Grip
Jannie
edited by jannie on 3/17/2010
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